Ok here this is that N20 with the engine rattle,,,BMW wanted me to check out the engine to find the problem,,,,so they had me remove the valve cover and check the upper end for any abnormal wear or damage,,,,,then the wanted me to check the rod bearings,,,,,here a pic of the oil pan and oil pump removed,,,,also the rod bearing caps are removed.
Here is a picture of all 4 rod bearing caps,,,,as you can see they are all worn the same,,,,but are biggest worry is how they are worn at the very bottom middle.
Here is a close up of one of the rod bearing,,,,you can see how they are worn,,,,,it’s hard to tell from the picture,,,,but there is almost a copper color to this bearing,,,,,that is bad news,,,,,when you start to see a copper color in a bearing,,,,that is a sign of a worn bearing,,,,,BMW wants me to replace the whole engine,,,,,the bad news it doesn’t pay for a tech,,,,it only pays 16 hours to remove engine and swap over all the parts to the new engine,,,,,that 2 days of work to before a engine swap.
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Recent Comments
vic san on N20 vanos unit broken Mark on N55 intake camshaft beari… JC on F30 A/C noise Jordan on New B engine mechanical water… jmiddle204 on X3 4×4 transfer case
bmwtechnician 
What happens to the old engine that only needs rod bearings?
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The old engine goes back to BMW ,,,,,as core charge and they rebuild them,,,,,so BMW can have re manufacture engines
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Also is there any additive that can be used to stop rod bearing wear.
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No there is no additive to stop metal fatigue
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i think all dealers screw techs on warranty- sucks.,,,bearing problem—, bad oil,? no changeee oil? spark knock? soft bearing material?
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Yea we do get screwed on a lot of thing,,,,there nothing we can do ,,,,,,I think this motor just had a bad set of rod bearing,,,,,we have seen this before
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What kind of noise was the engine making? We got one that ticks/knocks at a warm idle (not direct injection noise) that sounded more like a timing chain. Found the chain worn and replaced with guides and tensioner. Noise is still there. Pulled the rod bearings and found wear patterns similar to yours. Beginning of rod knock maybe?
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It’s possible the start of rod knock,,,,I have a audio clip of the noise on my blog with the rod knock,,,,,you can hear it at the end of the audio clip,,,,,how many miles on your engine,,,,and are you a repair shop?
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Roughly from memory it has 56k miles. I run the service department for a independent used car dealer.
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Just found the video clip, yeah that’s the noise I hear when I fluctuate the throttle around 2-3000rpms. Ours taps at idle too off and on.
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It’s probably the start of rod knock.
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My local BMW dealer is quoting about $20-25K for this work and I’m praying my extended warranty comes through on this. AND I just bought a 2012 328i with 57K miles from one of those luxury auto dealers and they claim they did a thorough inspection. Don’t have the final estimate yet but the number is what my service advisor is estimating. I’m also in talks with the original dealer to figure out a solution.
1. Can you just replace the rod bearing and the effected parts instead of doing an engine swap?
2. Is this a common problem?
3. What causes this problem?
4. Does an engine swap must be completed at certified BMW dealer?
4. What was the total cost of the engine swap?
5. What would you do in my situation??
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Hi sorry about your problem,,,,I know it must be frustrating,,,
1) yes you probably can replace the rod bearing,,,but you would have to tear the motor apart to get the crankshaft number for the rod bearing size which isn’t easy,,,,,and I haven’t heard of anyone replacing rod bearing only yet.
2) no it’s not a common problem,,,we see the rod bearings or timing chain assembly go bad.
3) we don’t know what causes the problem yet,,,,BMW hasn’t said what the problem is,,,,is it a defect ,,,is it driving it to hard,,,,we don’t know at this time.
4) no engine swap can be done any where,,,the warranty might change on the engine,,,,you might have to ask the dealer ,,,,,if the warranty changes on the engine if a independent does the repairs.
5) don’t know the cost,,,,as a tech we don’t see the price,,,,I can tell you it only pays me 16 hours to swap out the engine and get it running.
6) what should you do is a tuff one,,,,see what the extended warranty company says and what they will do for you,,,,also talk to the dealer ask about some kind of goodwill program,,,if the could help with a discount,,,,maybe they eat the motor and you pay the labor..,,,,good luck,,,I hope this helps
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Looks like Clevite now have a coated high performance upgraded bearing set. Speculating here but it could well be that the rod bearing tolerance isn’t providing enough clearance, and like other previous BMW engines we too are seeing premature bearing failures. Couple that with some unique oil pressure situations (drop under heavy breaking and high g corners) that have been identified by race teams and rod bolt stretching and we have a perfect storm.
I’m planning to push this engine some with a larger turbo compressor wheel and tune, so I’m looking at a tear down to replace bearings with Clevite units and rodbolts with Carr or ARP versions. Maybe even go to forged pistons and rods 😉 I’d definitely replace the timing and oil pump chains while at it.
Anything else I should consider? Maybe head studs or closed deck?
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Yes you can change the rod bolts to ARP bolts if they make them for the N20 engine
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I have a 13 N20 torn apart all over my bench. Searched high and low for aftermarket rod bearings and rods. Does any of you fine folks have part numbers or links to these?
Thank-You!
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CP Carrillo do a set of upgraded Rods and Pistons. Easy enough to find online. I went for standard bore and 10:1 CR but there are a few other options (84.5mm 9.5:1Cr). I’ve also Seen king bearings for the n20b20 on eBay too.
Only issues I’ve discovered… the block (bottom of cylinder) has to be notched or ground down to accommodate the larger CP Rod. I have a picture from another builder that did this and sleeved the block.
My build was pushed out a while, as I bought a house.
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Oh and one other thing… apparently BMW says you can not hone the arc spray weld cylinder coating. I’ve seen various reports that it’s only 0.2-0.4mm thick. So honing would be a problem. So apparently to do the job right and set the right clearances for a high performance street engine (i’m aiming for 500hp at the crank), you really need to sleeve the block. The pictures of the build engine I’ve seen used dry sleeves.
I also reached out to ARP to find out if the had done a set of Head and main studs, but not yet. Shouldn’t be a problem though.
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No I’m sorry I don’t,,,,I only use factory BMW parts
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Hello
As per your experience, is this a common issue in the N20’s? In any case, in your opinion, at what mileage this issue is expected to happen? In fact i’m still thinking about my low oil pressure issue -in progress, next results in the coming days from the shop-, and i was wondering (and afraid :-() whether a slightly worn crackshaft bearing may be the reason: “Low oil pressure” only at relatively low rpm’s, always with the oil warmed-up, 78000 miles..:-/ …
(nostalgic about my previous E36 325i which is still running around with more than 320 Kmiles on the clock without never have known any of these issues!! 🙂
Thanks!
javier
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The rod bearing problem was not a common problem,,,you problem with the oil pressure coming and going just doesn’t make any sense,,,,I know on the older engines we never had these problem,,,,I don’t understand what the problem
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What did the top end look like?
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Sorry we didn’t check the top end,,,,when I removed the rod bearings I didn’t go any further,,,,,BMW doesn’t pay me to tear down the engine once I found the problem.
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Do you know why newer n20 engines are quieter than older ones. My friends n20 on his 428 is much quieter than mine on my 328
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I know what you mean,,,,,but I never really thought about it
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The N20 engine which has a manufacturing date 09-2014 and later all have steel liners. The piston skirt seems to be wider and compression ratio is lower. However turbo pressure
has been raised (they call it 2.8 here in Europe)
My personal concern is the oil pressure regulating system. The oil shearing quality of the used oil and the prolonged service advice wil utlimately kill the engine. I always use TSL addative for protection and ACL racing bearings (4B1584-H) The oilpump which is of the volumetric kind i also replace (part nr 11417610378)
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Hey there! Quick question.. I’m a bit concerned about a knocking sound on my 2012 X1, but I’ve been told this is somewhat normal and not a concern as it disappears when revved and driving… seems to only be at idle. I’ve attached a video, just wondering if this is something to be concerned about? It’s pretty young at only 42k kilometres
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Thanks for the video,,,,,everything sounds normal,,,question for you is that knocking noise there while driving up a hill and with a load on the engine and boosting that’s when you can tell if you have rod knock,,,,,it doesn’t have to be a big hill,,,just need a load on engine and turbo boost,,,,if there is no knocking you are good,,,,,second thing the rod knock on that engine was very rare,,,,we only saw that on a couple engines very early N20 engines.
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Great to hear, thanks! Actually drove up a few hills today with winter tires and rims loaded in the back and you can’t hear anything in the cockpit, it was just that knocking at idle and low rpm that had me worried. Much appreciated!
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It is possible to change the rod bearings without removing the engine from the car?
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Yes,,,you would have to remove the oil pump but it no you can do it
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Do u have an email or skype or something? Would like to ask u abt the procedure.
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I have no skype,,,,you can ask here on this blog
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I bought a 2013 528ix with a bad engine. Original owner had oil pressure light and then engine stopped. I have put this chain of events together: Extremely small dia oil pick up screen 1″ dia. It was plugged with sludge. That is what happens with long oil change intervals. I pulled off thevalve cover and discovered the intake cam sprocket had been rounded off from chain sliding over it. Of course all the chain guides had broken and were in the oil pan. They broke when the timing chain rode over the sprocket teeth. I pulled one of the intake cam bearing caps off and found it was badly scored. In fact just turning the engine over and the timing chain slide over the sprocket so it definitely was seizing from low/no oil pressure. I just pulled the head off and it looks like a valve or two might have touched the piston but really nothing to be concerned.
So I would say that the tiny oil pick up screen with long change intervals did this engine in. I’ll bet many more of them had same issue. Probably not so much timing chain stretch as low oil pressure causing galling so intake need more power to turn.
The engine had 77,000 miles. Just over the warranty limit. The poor guy lost over $20k on this car.
Cars are my hobby. I have rebuilt BMWs: M42, S52, S54 and now this. (I didn’t really want to work on this car buy no one wanted to buy it so I did)
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The long mileage between oil service doesn’t help,,,,but what we find out is that people don’t even do the free oil services,,,,I have seen some car go over the oil service by 15k miles and then we find sludge and damage to the engine.
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Can the intake cam and ledgers and caps be rebuilt? I am buying and bad N20 with the same issue. Did you repair the engine or just replace it?
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No you can not rebuild them,,,you have to replace them
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I bought another head only to find the exhaust cam and intake cam bearings were both scored although not as bad as my intakes were. I’m thinking I might be able to hone the bearing caps and polish the cam bearings.
I was looking at another head and that one was not scored but they had not saved the bearing caps! I’m thinking finding a good head will be difficult. I have moved the car into storage until I can find a good head.
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I’m sure its going to be hard to find a good cylinder head
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Hi, in this page you mention about Rod bearings, is there a difference between this and crankshaft thrust bearings? With any early rod bearing issues, what kind of sounds would you be looking out for on a cold start and at any revs (on idle) if applicable? Thanks
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Yes there is a difference between rod bearings and crankshaft bearing,,,,rod bearing noise usually happen warm or cold and while driving,,,usually up a hill with a load on the engine you might here a knocking noise.
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Hello, regarding a 320i (2012), would you only change rod bearings if you heard a knocking noise or other outer symptom (e.g. Metal found in the oil filter, etc) or would you consider getting them changed at a certain mileage as a preventative measure? Also do you know if the newer rod bearing parts (for the bottom end) solve the issue involving rod bearings as has the part number changed ?
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I would remove and inspect the rod bearing and main bearing and see where the metal is coming from,,,and if there is any damage to the crankshaft journal.
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Just to clarify the previous message, If you didn’t find any metal in the oil filter or hear any outer symptoms like a knocking noise, then is OK and best to leave the engine as is (I.e. Not to open engine apart and you would not inspect rod bearings to examine their appearance) ?
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If there is no metal in oil filter and no knocking noise,,,then I would not check the rod bearing,,,I would only check the rod bearing if the oil pan was removed then I would check them
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Hello, looking for advice and thank you for posting this blog, very helpful.
I have a knocking N20 out of Z4 and I’m fairly certain that it needs the rod bearings replaced. I assume I can replace them from under the car by removing the oil pan which will give me access. Now after reading the TIS on this they mention crankshaft crank pins, do I have to do anything with this? I’m a home mechanic and I’m not sure what they mean exactly by saying “All crankshaft crank pins are classified” and can I identify this without tearing the engine down? Do I need special tools?
Also, please give your opinion on the actual noise coming from the engine:
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Thanks for the videos,,,,it’s hard to tell but I think the noise is coming from the head,,,,maybe valve train noise,,,maybe take off the valve cover and check out the camshaft lobes and valve spring,,,,,sounds like something might be broken cylinder 3
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Thank you for your suggestion. I will do this before dropping the subframe for the oil pan.
In case I do still have to change the rod bearings, is there a way to find out which Connecting Rod Bearing I will need (I know that it’s on the first crank web, but I don’t think i will be able to see that from the oil pan.
Thank you!
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Good question,,,I don’t think you will be able to see it from the oil pan either,,,we don’t replace rod bearings anymore,,,,they just have us replace the whole engine for liability reasons.
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So, I took your advice and took the valve cover off. I checked the loves and valve springs and everything looks fine (although, if you can tell me what specifically to look for, i’d appreciate it very much).
What I did notice is that the chain is VERY loose in a certain position. When I spin the engine half to a full turn, the chain becomes very tight again. Could this be cause the noise by itself? What would be the first thing to go with the timing chain like this? Rob bearing?
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Thanks for the video,,,I wanted to see if the camshaft lobes are ok and not damaged,,,what was strange on last video when you disconnected the ignition coil on cylinder 3 how the knocking noise changed.,,,,the timing chain having that much slack is crazy and then it get tight when you turn it so the chain tensioner is building pressure again,,,,I have never seen that much slack in the chain where you can put your finger under it.,,,,I think you might have a couple problem,,,,timing chain issue,,,and I don’t know about this knocking noise it could be rod knock hard to say?
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Would you attempt to fix it or just go for a new engine? I’m willing to spend the time to replace the chain and do the bearing, but I don’t want to spend $800 worth of parts and not solve the issue. I found a few engines around $3500 with around 20-30k miles on them.
Thank you for your suggestions through this. If you have any other advice, please let me know!
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I would probably go with a used engine,,,,just because I worry about that knocking noise and we don’t know what going to fix it.
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Hi there, I have a N20 with slight knocking noise when car is in drive or reverse you can feel the vibration when it’s in drive or reverse but not in park or neutral(or turning on the ac). Car sounds fine when it’s in park and no vibration, the engine mounts was replaced couple months ago. I would like to know is this knocking noise and vibration caused rod bearing or something else, this engine also needs a timing chain guild rail replacement and a new turbo soon, if it’s the rod bearing going bad is it more economical to just put a low mileage used engine in it?
Thanks!
Idle noise when car is in park: https://youtu.be/ETCUalFulwo
Idle noise when car is in drive: https://youtu.be/kNjQOKboy8M
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Thanks for the video,,,,,ok it’s hard to tell by the video what I am hearing,,,,,that being said,,,,,you said the noise is not there when it is in park,,,,but it does it in drive and reverse,,,,that doesn’t sound like a rod knock,,,because a rod knock would happen all the time and would be real bad when driving with a load on engine like going up hill,,,,you did say it needs a timing chain and rail,,,that could be your noise and vibration
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I swapped out all 8 shells in my 2013 N26 with 110k miles. They looked exactly like the pics above. You can read the code on the crank web by pulling the oil pump sprocket off. Easy job and should be done with the timing chain job.
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Very nice
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I blew up 3 N20’s in my car in 9 months. Original engine went 105,000 and the oil pump chain broke. Bought a pan to fan reman from a builder. Lasted half a block. Builder says heavy oil starvation. 3rd engine lasted 2 weeks, same deal. Locked up, metal in oil filter. Builder is thinking oil control valve operated by the dme is at fault. I’m scared.
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I would be scared also,,,it could be the oil control valve but there should be some faults for low oil pressure while driving telling you to shut off the engine.,,,,metal in the filter,,,,which bearings are going bad.
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No warning light or message or sound. Oil pump was changed in both replacement engines. I think the oil control valve too. So could the DME just up and dump oil pressure? If so, why now?
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No the DME can not just dump the oil pressure,,,,something else is causing the oil pressure lost,,,,are you getting any oil pressure faults
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No oil pressure faults. No warning. Intermittent 118402 (rich) when I let it idle too long.-30 stft. Ran down the road like a beast tho. Could oil pressure at idle cause cam timing trouble thus rich code?
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Oil pressure problem at idle could cause a vanos issue but not a rich issue,,,the rich issue is fuel and air related,,,possible bad injector or air mass meter,,,,have you checked the spark plugs for fuel smell.
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No smell. All 4 plugs look the same. Not rich looking either. Swapped out the MAF sensor and O2. Air box is clear, filter is clean.
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Question have the injectors been replaced recently,,,,next thing are your sure there are no air leaks,,the intake plastic pipe cracks sometimes.
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Swapped the original injectors back to the same hole to where they came out. Got a spiffy new aluminum intake tube. other tubes in and out of IC seem great, even sprayed carb cleanner all over. I’d try a smoke machine if it ran.:(
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re; rod bearing wear– im not happy that my f30 4 cycl turbo wants to drop to 1200 rpm at 40 miles per hour in comfort mode.. seems to have taken a long time to adapt to my driving style,, 1200 rpm seems to be a strain on the engine at that speed.. IS THIS 2.0L SUPPOSED TO HOLD UP UNDER THESE LOW RPM CONDITIONS? (in case my wife drives that way)
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Yes the 2.0l will hold up to those low rpm,,,,the engine is barely operating under those low rpm.
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Hello BMW technician I have a 2013 X3 with N20 engine that’s making a knocking noise whenever it’s in drive or reverse but no knocking noise when it’s in park or neutral. Also there is a ticking noise when I drive slowly like in parking lot, can you please help to see if this noise is caused by the engine?
Video:
This video have the same noise I’m referring to when driving in low speed, you can hear the knocking noise better starting 0:50.
Knocking noise when in drive:
I tried to remove drive belt to see if it was the belt tensioner or compressor causing the knock, but the noise is still there when I removed drive belt and in drive.
Thank you
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Thanks for both videos,,,,you c an really hear the knock noise in the second video in drive,,,boy it’s really hard to say what the knock noise is without hearing it in person,,,can you open the oil cap slightly and see if the noise is coming from inside the engine,,,,the noise kind of sounds like a rod knock or a camshaft rocker noise,,,,question what happens if you drive up hill with a slight load on engine does it get loader,,,,also what happen on decelerations does the noise go away or quiets down?
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Thanks for the reply, so when it’s in park or neutral it’s very quiet. The knocking noise came from lower portion of the engine on passenger side, at first I thought it’s fuel pump or injector that’s making this noise but after replacing them knocking noise is still present. When going up hill slowly I don’t hear knocking noise I only hear the ticking noise from first video, same with putting slight load on the engine. I don’t hear knocking noise when it’s above 1500 RPM the noise is only present at 700-1300 RPM in drive or reverse. Also with default engine RPM if I put the car into drive or reverse I can feel vibration from seat but I don’t feel vibration when AC is on or increase RPM slightly, I used ISTA to increase engine RPM in drive by 100RPM and vibration is significantly reduced. I feel like it’s torque converter knocking because when I used sport display to see HP and torque, whenever there is no torque I don’t hear any knocking noise. When decelerate down a hill with no load engine I don’t hear knocking noise I only hear it when I come to a dead stop. I will take more videos with slight load on the engine and going up hill.
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Thanks again for the video,,,,I think what you need to do is find a mechanic who can lift the car up and put the car in drive and put a load on it and see where the noise is coming from,,,,it could be a rod knock or maybe a driveshaft issue with the rotation during driving?
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I’m having a similar issue with my N20 where the symptom is knocking noise when stationary and in drive there is no knocking in park , if I let off the brake and drive it pass 800RPM knocking noise disappear no knocking noise going up hill. I can feel vibration from the seat and steering wheel when car is in dirve and stationary, if I let off the brake and drive the car I don’t feel any vibration. I also notice the intake valve side shakes violently when in drive compare to park could this be a issue with the valvetrain?
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You said the motor shakes alot on the intake side and you feel a vibration inside the car,,,,,I would check both motor mount might be collapsed ,,,,I have a post on N20 motor mounts
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Engine mounts looks in good shape I’m also getting a intermittent CEL for “Absolute Pressure Sensor Intake Manifold Plausibility Intake Manifold Pressure Too High” not sure if this is related to the shaking when in drive. Throttle body was cleaned and the actual MAP sensor was replaced.
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Are you sure the motor mounts are ok,,,,you have to check them out from under the car,,,the rubber part of the mount should not be touching the metal mount arm from the engine,,,,next thing is this engine modified or tuned because I don’t like this manifold pressure to high faulty
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Yes, I can confirm motor mounts are good. I had the car on a lift when replacing oil level sensor few months ago and the mechanic said mounts are ok. Engine is completely stock no modification, I will use a smoke machine tomorrow to see if there is any vacuum leak on the intake. What could the possible cause of this fault code?
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It’s really hard to say what the problem could be,,,performing a smoke test is a good idea,,,question do you have any turbo issue or over boost issue faults.
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Could a clogged catalytic conerter causing “Absolute Pressure Sensor Intake Manifold Plausibility Intake Manifold Pressure Too High” I had P0420 and just replaced my cat, the old one is heavily clogged and dirty.
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I guess it could cause that problem,,,to much back pressure from the turbo and it’s going into the intake,,,,it’s possible with a BMW,,,lol
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Here is a video when car is in park.
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Thanks, I will take to my mechanic once this coronavirus situation gets a little better. Stay safe!
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I think the knocking sound is coming from the engine, I bought an endoscope and checked all the cylinders found out that cylinder 4 is scored. Also cylinder 1 and 4 are misfiring very often, all injectors, plug, coils were replaced last year they shouldn’t be the cause of misfire. Could a scored cylinder causes misfire? Is N20 engine worth rebuilding or just get another car with N55 engine, I already dumped a lot of money on this engine really don’t want to let it go.
Thanks.
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Yes a scored cylinder wall could cause issues depending on how bad it is,,,,now rebuilding the N20 can be done also depending on what needs to be done with your engine,,,,now if you get a car with a N55 engine you might be buy someone else’s problem that they didn’t take care of.,,,,your in a very tuff place,,,,your misfire with the N20 could be your DME issue,,,they have been known to have misfire issues,,,,maybe you need someone to tell you what the issue is on the misfire before you throw in the towel.
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Is there any major defects on N55 like the timing chain failure on N20? Also which year N55 engine have the least problem.
Thanks.
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No the N55 doesn’t have timing chain issues like the N20.
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FYI. Our 2013 X3 F25/N20 spun rod bearing, cylinder #3, at less than 90k mi. Bearing found melted to crank shaft. This was after Timing Chain and Oil Pump chain replaced at ~70k mi. Replaced engine (@ BMW dealership) last year, and now have had a series of Drive Train Malfunction alerts in trips this summer. First attempt to resolve: Fault 120308, replaced pressure converter for exhaust turbocharger. Experienced same alert on drive home from the dealership, so back in the shop. This time they found Engine Adaptation Values out of spec, and made adjustments. Last week, same experience/alert. Now dealer is saying turbo system failing, and needs replacing. I am here wondering if the root of these problems is oil/lack of oil.
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That a possibility,,,when we replace a engine and it had a spun rod bearing and we find metal in the oil,,,,BMW always has replace the turbo at the same time.
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Hi, I have repaired a few of these engines. Had the crank reground used ACL racing bigend bearings making sure the clearance is correct using plastigauge PG1 greenm and always a new oilpump.The engines oil cooler should also be replaced as it collects a lot of debris that is hard to remove. The problem being that the regulated pressure is fairly low (3.3 bar at operating temp) so you can imagine if boost is applied suddenly the oil gets sheared away causing the oil starvation on the crank. When you disconnect the pressure control valve which shuts the return passageway to the sump the pressure wil run at 2.6 bar on idle and 5.5 bar on full load which i much prefer. I also use 5W40 with a TSL addative to save the engines. Of course a frequent oil change is crucial to the engines lifespan. I have also noticed that N20b20b engines after 9/2014 have been manufactured with steel cilinder liners in my opinion is a improvement.
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BMW 2016 328i N26 55k Just wondering how to check if your rear wheel bearing is bad? When I drive bad noise sound came from the rear wheel so I raise the rear wheel and check everything look ok no sound no shaking. Please advise. Thank you!
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I was wondering did you check the tire tread to make sure the tread is not choppy that could also make a noise,,,ok back to the wheel bearing is the noise at a higher speed or does it change sound when slowing down and coming to a stop,,,,next thing if it is loader at higher speed then it might be a wheel bearing,,,the best way to check is to lift the car on a rack and put it in gear and have someone listen under the car to see which wheel it is coming from and to also make sure it a wheel bearing or not something else like the rear differential,,,Hope this helps
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Hey I have “glitter” like material in my 2016 X3 with more information and pictures here
https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28126616#post28126616
What do you think is going on here?
thanks in advance
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That doesn’t look good,,,looks like a bearing is going bad,,,either main or rod bearing
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